Why is Lisi worse than "Rocky"?

[Tabby Lavalamp]

There is a lot of Lisi hate around here, and I even get why people don't like her. However, the Lisi hate seems to dwarf any hatred towards James "Rocky" and this I don't get. Both had attitudes that far outstripped their abilities either in challenges or around camp so they seem pretty even in that regard. Lisi kept wanting to quit, whereas James wanted to stay so he gets the edge there, but the Lisi hatred started well before that became an issue.
In the old Moto, Lisi was a bitch towards "Dreamz" and Cassandra who were the outsiders for her alliance and that was the worse thing she did, which made her a bully, but that's where I'm lost on why she's worse than James.
James was a bully too, but on top of it he was a misogynist and a homophobe, and it seems like that's been ignored in favour of Lisi hatred. This is a man who targeted a woman for the crime of talking girly girl talk. This is a man who verbally belittled another man and questioned his masculinity on national television.
Lisi's not nice, but she wasn't anywhere near the disgusting human being that James showed himself to be, so I'm really lost one why she's hated more.

[TinkerbellAPixie]

Actually - I think Rocky is ten times worse than Lisi for all the reasons you gave. I am hoping his time on Survivor will prevent any woman from EVER dating him again.

As for my dislike of Lisi - I guess it was the mean girls way she approached Dreamz, and she mocked Yao Man at a couple of the challenges. I love Yao Man so that didn't sit well with me.

[Schoonie]

As far as I'm concerned, I think it's way funnier to make fun of Lisi, because she's just kind of lame and disconnected from reality, whereas Rocky is sort of contemptable and it's hard to make fun of someone who is an actual asshole. He's way worse than Lisi, as far as personality and poor conduct is concerned, but Lisi is like a giant, faceplant-y target at which to aim my snark. It's not that I hate her more, it's that it's easier to make others laugh by making fun of her because you don't have to talk about yucky things like sexism. Lisi's not a bad person, she's just sort of unable to process reality; Rocky might actually be a bad person, not to pass judgment.

I think that's the way it is for everybody; they'd just rather make fun of someone kind of dumb and aloof than make fun of someone gross, because they just...don't want to talk about it. It's like the difference between Shane crazy (which is fun to watch because it's hilarious and harmless) and Mirna crazy (which is not fun to watch because it is offensive and makes Americans look terrible). Make sense?

[Quidam]

Why do you think people think Lisi IS worse than “Rocky”? Unless of course I missed it in a post somewhere.

I think they compliment each other with their ignorance/intolerance, offensiveness, lack of character and self love. They are like the yin and yang of idiots. Like I said in another post…one can only hope they eat each other in sequester.

[chooch850]

..... because she's a girl.

[LonnaSaur]

I believe in Equal Opportunity Loathing. I hate them both.

[Tabby Lavalamp]

As far as I'm concerned, I think it's way funnier to make fun of Lisi, because she's just kind of lame and disconnected from reality, whereas Rocky is sort of contemptable and it's hard to make fun of someone who is an actual asshole. He's way worse than Lisi, as far as personality and poor conduct is concerned, but Lisi is like a giant, faceplant-y target at which to aim my snark. It's not that I hate her more, it's that it's easier to make others laugh by making fun of her because you don't have to talk about yucky things like sexism. Lisi's not a bad person, she's just sort of unable to process reality; Rocky might actually be a bad person, not to pass judgment.

I think that's the way it is for everybody; they'd just rather make fun of someone kind of dumb and aloof than make fun of someone gross, because they just...don't want to talk about it. It's like the difference between Shane crazy (which is fun to watch because it's hilarious and harmless) and Mirna crazy (which is not fun to watch because it is offensive and makes Americans look terrible). Make sense?
I'm Canadian. Anything that makes Americans look terrible (that doesn't involve death) is hilarious to me. :) I can't stand Mirna, but damn, she's so entertaining in her batshit craziness that I'm very happy she's still in the race. If anything, I'd view the comparison the other way around. Mirna's craziness is rooted in ignorance and hypocrisy. Shane's, at times, seemed a little more real, and that makes it easier for me to laugh at Mirna.
You make some good points about Lisi vs. James, but I have to mildly disagree. His very assholeness makes him very deserving of being brought down by snark and ridicule. By following your arguments, the entire Bush regime would be devoid of people making fun of them. It might be harder to make people laugh at the biggest assholes, but they are much more worthy targets.

Why do you think people think Lisi IS worse than “Rocky”? Unless of course I missed it in a post somewhere.
By the sheer number of insults directed her way as opposed to his. There are people (HB or ZB was one, I believe) that wanted to see her go before him, they hate her that much.

[Schoonie]

I'm Canadian. Anything that makes Americans look terrible (that doesn't involve death) is hilarious to me. I can't stand Mirna, but damn, she's so entertaining in her batshit craziness that I'm very happy she's still in the race. If anything, I'd view the comparison the other way around. Mirna's craziness is rooted in ignorance and hypocrisy. Shane's, at times, seemed a little more real, and that makes it easier for me to laugh at Mirna.

Mirna should revolt you not because you are not American and thereby free from that particular aspect of her conduct, but because you are a human. She disrespects personal space, has no concept of the social contract, yells until she gets what she wants, and is completely selfish about everything, including using the deaths of her family members and her sister's disability to her advantage. To top it all off, she has that crazy reality show trait where she thinks that she's the best person in the room at all times, and as the most honorable, she deserves to win more than anyone else and have people lay down in front of her. And it's not just a race thing; it's a life thing. If you beat her at anything or are better than her at anything, you must be a bad person. It's not entertaining to me, it's gross. Shane didn't have that, he was just sort of a crazy, random person, and I can respect that because he owns it, he knows he's crazy, unlike Mirna, who thinks she's the best person ever, as does Rocky. I'm not someone to decide who should like who, and you are free to enjoy her presence on that show, but I am revolted by it, to like a Rocky extent, and that's why. Honestly, that's worse than anything Lisi did.


You make some good points about Lisi vs. James, but I have to mildly disagree. His very assholeness makes him very deserving of being brought down by snark and ridicule. By following your arguments, the entire Bush regime would be devoid of people making fun of them. It might be harder to make people laugh at the biggest assholes, but they are much more worthy targets.

Comparing President Bush to a hacky reality star is not a logical argument. President Bush is in the public eye for four years, and therefore inevitably provides lighthearted entertainment through the mispronunciation of words and whatnot, while making poor, selfish decisions that only serve the rich in the meantime. Rocky took his seven hours of airtime, was hilarious in the first episode, and then sucked the rest of the time, to the point where it was so terrible and loathsome that there were no bright spots, and no room to mock him because of all the concentrated contempt. It's two completely different situations. There's not some Inverse Property of Dickishness, as you implied, that makes people more deserving than others of being mocked according to some sliding scale of morality. Some people are buffoons (Lisi), and some are assholes (Rocky), and it's more fun to mock the buffoons, as a general rule, because they don't require you to directly address any scary life issues. Being made fun of is not a punishment; you don't mock someone for being an asshole, you stand up to them and call them an asshole. Poking fun at someone is only designed to make others laugh, not as an act of morality; that's why we do it to people on TV, because there are no reprecussions. I have 14 one hour episodes in which to mock people, and I don't want to waste it talking about my views on sexism and misogyny re: Rocky's conduct, because that's not funny, and you can't even make fun of it because there's no room to. That's what I'm here for when I write the recaps, to make people laugh. When he leaves me openings, I take them, but Lisi leaves me way more because she's just deluded and crazy, not gross like Rocky or Mirna. It's not an easy targets vs. hard targets thing, it's a fun and light thing versus gross , sexist undertones thing. As I said re: President Bush and four years versus Rocky's seven hours of airtime, it's all in the limited material they provide.

I hope that explained properly, Tabby. BTW, I love your responses; they're clearly well crafted and thought out. Just thought I would explain myself.

[chooch850]

Schoonie wrote another book.

[Schoonie]

man, now I'll be dodging cats being thrown at me from random shadows for the next three hours.

[JulieM]

My fault with Lisi is that she didn't think she did anything wrong and Rocky admitted he was an ass. Her treatment of Dreamz reminded me of high school and the popular people who thought it was okay to shit on the unpopular people.

[Pegster]

Ah, Schoonie, you crazy kid, you. I swear when I read your posts I can picture you sitting there getting all worked up over your responses. You crack me up. In the best possible, non-Lisi way. Holla!

Oh, and for the record, I hate Lisi, Rocky, and Mirna. All for reasons previously stated. I am glad the first two are gone, and can only pray that Mirna gets run over by an angry taxi driver this Sunday.

Then Charla can yell at her "Hurry up Mirna!! Hurry UPPPPP!!"

[Pekmboyd]

Mirna should revolt you not because you are not American and thereby free from that particular aspect of her conduct, but because you are a human. She disrespects personal space, has no concept of the social contract, yells until she gets what she wants, and is completely selfish about everything, including using the deaths of her family members and her sister's disability to her advantage. To top it all off, she has that crazy reality show trait where she thinks that she's the best person in the room at all times, and as the most honorable, she deserves to win more than anyone else and have people lay down in front of her. And it's not just a race thing; it's a life thing. If you beat her at anything or are better than her at anything, you must be a bad person. It's not entertaining to me, it's gross. Shane didn't have that, he was just sort of a crazy, random person, and I can respect that because he owns it, he knows he's crazy, unlike Mirna, who thinks she's the best person ever, as does Rocky. I'm not someone to decide who should like who, and you are free to enjoy her presence on that show, but I am revolted by it, to like a Rocky extent, and that's why. Honestly, that's worse than anything Lisi did.



Comparing President Bush to a hacky reality star is not a logical argument. President Bush is in the public eye for four years, and therefore inevitably provides lighthearted entertainment through the mispronunciation of words and whatnot, while making poor, selfish decisions that only serve the rich in the meantime. Rocky took his seven hours of airtime, was hilarious in the first episode, and then sucked the rest of the time, to the point where it was so terrible and loathsome that there were no bright spots, and no room to mock him because of all the concentrated contempt. It's two completely different situations. There's not some Inverse Property of Dickishness, as you implied, that makes people more deserving than others of being mocked according to some sliding scale of morality. Some people are buffoons (Lisi), and some are assholes (Rocky), and it's more fun to mock the buffoons, as a general rule, because they don't require you to directly address any scary life issues. Being made fun of is not a punishment; you don't mock someone for being an asshole, you stand up to them and call them an asshole. Poking fun at someone is only designed to make others laugh, not as an act of morality; that's why we do it to people on TV, because there are no reprecussions. I have 14 one hour episodes in which to mock people, and I don't want to waste it talking about my views on sexism and misogyny re: Rocky's conduct, because that's not funny, and you can't even make fun of it because there's no room to. That's what I'm here for when I write the recaps, to make people laugh. When he leaves me openings, I take them, but Lisi leaves me way more because she's just deluded and crazy, not gross like Rocky or Mirna. It's not an easy targets vs. hard targets thing, it's a fun and light thing versus gross , sexist undertones thing. As I said re: President Bush and four years versus Rocky's seven hours of airtime, it's all in the limited material they provide.

I hope that explained properly, Tabby. BTW, I love your responses; they're clearly well crafted and thought out. Just thought I would explain myself.

Golly gee, and here I thought I was allowed to have my own opinions about things.

I think it would be great if people could say "I think" and "In my opinion" instead of lecturing.

[Schoonie]

"I think" and "In my opinion" weaken an argument, which is also what you think, and your opinion, thus making those statements redundant. I figure it's assumed what I think, or what my opinion is, because it's there. You're free to respond with an actual opinion on the matter, instead of bitching about being "lectured" because you're "not allowed to have your own opinions about things". You should also read the entire thing, maybe, given that one of the sentences is:

I'm not someone to decide who should like who, and you are free to enjoy her presence on that show

I'm just checking, but that's what forums are for, right? To post your opinions, and the reasons behind them? Not to heckle others about their choice of words? Not to make things personally and internalize/take offense when people make succinct arguments for the points they wish to convey? Just checking.

[Pekmboyd]

"I think" and "In my opinion" weaken an opinion, or what you think. To be frank, instead of bitching about being "lectured", you should read the entire thing, maybe:



I'm just checking, but that's what forums are for, right? To post your opinions, and the reasons behind them? Not to heckle others about their choice of words? Just checking.

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the tiny caveat buried in your novel.

The forums are for friends to discuss shows - not for people to feel belittled and minimized because they have the GALL to disagree with you. Your tone makes me, for one, feel that no matter what I say or post, I am instantly wrong, because the Almighty Schoonie's Thesis disagrees with me.

[angiemarie]

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the tiny caveat buried in your novel.

The forums are for friends to discuss shows - not for people to feel belittled and minimized because they have the GALL to disagree with you. Your tone makes me, for one, feel that no matter what I say or post, I am instantly wrong, because the Almighty Schoonie's Thesis disagrees with me.

Oh, I hate it when Mom and Dad fight, it gives me an upset stomach. Pek, I'm sorry you felt minimized, I don't think that was Schoonie's intention. I enjoy reading your posts, and I hope this doesn't make you avoid any of the forums.


Anyway, I really hate Rocky. I think he's a sexist asshole. As I've said before any women who has sex with him after seeing this show deserves to be shot. I dislike Lisi, so it's fun to laugh at her. She's more of an idiot than as asshole.

[Schoonie]

Well, that's not the intention at all, so sorry if that's the way it came across. Tabby responded to my short post with what she thought, so I expounded on the subject to further explain my response. We've done it before, many times. Perhaps the tone was a bit forward, but I may have written too many political science papers, ha. I like to make my point directly, that's all. And I don't remember belittling your opinion at all, because I still haven't seen one. In fact, I remember us having a pretty good discussion about Mirna and the BQs a couple of weeks ago, where you made some pretty good points and we went back and forth for awhile, which I enjoyed, and I look forward to more in the future. It's not a "people have the gall to disagree with me" thing, it's a "I would like to respond to your response" thing. It's not a rude thing to respond to an argument, and it's not personal just because I make counter-arguments. There are no personal comments aimed at Tabby, or you, anywhere in my original (admittedly long) post, and it's not designed to make someone feel bad for thinking something; it's designed to explain my point. If it went past that, my bad. This is supposed to be fun, not personal, so if that's how I come across sometimes, know that that's not the intent. But I'm not going to stop posting what I think, just because it might come across as haughty. That's the way I discuss things, because that's how discussion works, no? You either agree, or disagree. If you disagree, it goes argument, response to argument, response to response. It's not some arbitrary set of rules I made up to be superior, it's the way people talk. I don't see a problem with a direct, responsive tone, but know that it's always supposed to be friendly and in the spirit of discussion, not rude. Btw, I love the word "caveat". It is awesome.

I blame Mirna for this debacle! Bring me her whistle on a silver platter.

[Pegster]

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the tiny caveat buried in your novel.

The forums are for friends to discuss shows - not for people to feel belittled and minimized because they have the GALL to disagree with you. Your tone makes me, for one, feel that no matter what I say or post, I am instantly wrong, because the Almighty Schoonie's Thesis disagrees with me.

Schoonie's argument was just Schoonie being, well Schoonie. He listens to other peoples opinions, processes them, and then comes back with well thought out responses. I, for one, enjoy them, and I really doubt he meant to belittle or minimize anyone, nor did he mean to lecture.

You should read his and Jack's comments on the Survivor recaps - they could probably go on for days back and forth with their hypotheses and whatnot.

Please don't make it personal! Schoonie is the Schooniest!

[Tabby Lavalamp]

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the tiny caveat buried in your novel.

The forums are for friends to discuss shows - not for people to feel belittled and minimized because they have the GALL to disagree with you. Your tone makes me, for one, feel that no matter what I say or post, I am instantly wrong, because the Almighty Schoonie's Thesis disagrees with me.
In my opinion, I think you have every right to your feelings about it, but I think, in my opinion, that Schoonie was responding to my post and so his was directed, I think, mainly to me and I didn't get that vibe at all, but that could be because I've been having discussions online for some, in my opinion, 17 years now.
I think.

[Tabby Lavalamp]

Mirna should revolt you not because you are not American and thereby free from that particular aspect of her conduct, but because you are a human. She disrespects personal space, has no concept of the social contract, yells until she gets what she wants, and is completely selfish about everything, including using the deaths of her family members and her sister's disability to her advantage. To top it all off, she has that crazy reality show trait where she thinks that she's the best person in the room at all times, and as the most honorable, she deserves to win more than anyone else and have people lay down in front of her. And it's not just a race thing; it's a life thing. If you beat her at anything or are better than her at anything, you must be a bad person. It's not entertaining to me, it's gross.
She does revolt me for all those reasons, but in a fun to watch, what the hell is she going to do next kind of way. At no point do I think she has an actual mental illness, despite calling her "batshit crazy", because if she did, none of it would be enjoyable. I like a villain, every show should have one, and I prefer that villain to be true to themselves and not manufactured by the producers.
As much as I love the BQs, and I think Oswald and Danny are a hoot, this season would be so much more dull without Mirna and Charla. If they weren't there, we'd be left with Eric and Danielle as the big villains right how. Nobody wants that.
I've long argued in favour of variety because life would be so bland if everyone had the same tastes. You don't have to enjoy Mirna, that's okay.
Shane didn't have that, he was just sort of a crazy, random person, and I can respect that because he owns it, he knows he's crazy, unlike Mirna, who thinks she's the best person ever, as does Rocky. I'm not someone to decide who should like who, and you are free to enjoy her presence on that show, but I am revolted by it, to like a Rocky extent, and that's why. Honestly, that's worse than anything Lisi did.
Shane's craziness didn't really do it for me because, like I said earlier, it seemed a little too close to being real for my taste and I can't laugh at real mental illness. He probably isn't mentally ill in the needing medication kind of way, but much of what he said tells me he could probably use a good amount of therapy.

Comparing President Bush to a hacky reality star is not a logical argument.
It was a comparison I pulled off the top of my head, but an asshole is an asshole. Bush's infamy and misdeeds may exceed James' by many magnitudes, but it was just a comparison for an image's sake, not "this is equal to this".
President Bush is in the public eye for four years,
Well over six, actually, if you include the primaries and election run, said the pedantic Canadian to the American. :p
and therefore inevitably provides lighthearted entertainment through the mispronunciation of words and whatnot, while making poor, selfish decisions that only serve the rich in the meantime.
And this is different from James, except in orders of magnitude, how...?
Rocky took his seven hours of airtime, was hilarious in the first episode, and then sucked the rest of the time, to the point where it was so terrible and loathsome that there were no bright spots, and no room to mock him because of all the concentrated contempt. It's two completely different situations. There's not some Inverse Property of Dickishness, as you implied, that makes people more deserving than others of being mocked according to some sliding scale of morality.
Actually, there is. It's been a long-standing tradition in comedy to tear down those most deserving of it. That's why you'll hear far more jokes at Pat Robertson's expense than at Mother Theresa's.
Some people are buffoons (Lisi), and some are assholes (Rocky), and it's more fun to mock the buffoons, as a general rule, because they don't require you to directly address any scary life issues. Being made fun of is not a punishment; you don't mock someone for being an asshole, you stand up to them and call them an asshole. Poking fun at someone is only designed to make others laugh, not as an act of morality; that's why we do it to people on TV, because there are no reprecussions. I have 14 one hour episodes in which to mock people, and I don't want to waste it talking about my views on sexism and misogyny re: Rocky's conduct, because that's not funny, and you can't even make fun of it because there's no room to. That's what I'm here for when I write the recaps, to make people laugh. When he leaves me openings, I take them, but Lisi leaves me way more because she's just deluded and crazy, not gross like Rocky or Mirna. It's not an easy targets vs. hard targets thing, it's a fun and light thing versus gross , sexist undertones thing. As I said re: President Bush and four years versus Rocky's seven hours of airtime, it's all in the limited material they provide.
I'm not saying you have to turn your focus from Lisi to James. I do, however, think it's easier to poke fun at a buffoon than an asshole with an asshole's outlook on life, but I don't fault that. I've tried my hand at the full recap thing and it ate up so much time that I'd just go for the nearest joke at hand and buffoons provide that. No, I'm not calling you a lazy writer (honestly, I haven't read any of your recaps yet so I'm not judging you on this as I can't, I'm just putting out my viewpoint on writing jokes). Buffoons do need deflating too.
Comedy (particularly satire and parody, but all forms really) serves a vital social function as far as I'm concerned. Misogyny and homophobia are scary topics, but very little works as well as comedy for taking a lot of the scariness out of misogynists and homophobes (and again, I'm not saying you should be trying to make your recaps a platform for anything like this, I'm just laying out one of the reasons I love comedy so much).

I hope that explained properly, Tabby. BTW, I love your responses; they're clearly well crafted and thought out. Just thought I would explain myself.
Ditto.

[Schoonie]

Okay, so we're going to be disagreeing on the Mirna issue and on the Shane issue, so we can safely close those chapters, I think.



President Bush is in the public eye for four years,
Well over six, actually, if you include the primaries and election run, said the pedantic Canadian to the American.
Actually, if you count primaries, campaigning, and the amount of time he's been in the "public eye" it's closer to eight. I was talking about the term of office of a president in general. Stay on your side of the line and enjoy your free health care, fool! ;)



and therefore inevitably provides lighthearted entertainment through the mispronunciation of words and whatnot, while making poor, selfish decisions that only serve the rich in the meantime.
And this is different from James, except in orders of magnitude, how...?

Because James doesn't get four years. It is about the magnitude. If we taped James for four years, he'd probably do something lighthearted, but: he did not, after the first hour. That was the whole point, was seven hours versus four years. And thank you for pointing that out.



Rocky took his seven hours of airtime, was hilarious in the first episode, and then sucked the rest of the time, to the point where it was so terrible and loathsome that there were no bright spots, and no room to mock him because of all the concentrated contempt. It's two completely different situations. There's not some Inverse Property of Dickishness, as you implied, that makes people more deserving than others of being mocked according to some sliding scale of morality.
Actually, there is. It's been a long-standing tradition in comedy to tear down those most deserving of it. That's why you'll hear far more jokes at Pat Robertson's expense than at Mother Theresa's.

Actually, there's not. By this logic, Helen Keller is probably the biggest asshole that ever lived. Jesus? He's an asshole. The Pope? Asshole.

Who's "most deserving"? I don't decide that; you don't decide that; the subjects of the jokes themselves decide that. That long standing tradition to tear down assholes exists, but it's actually to tear down people who deserve to be made fun of through their actions, which is what you were trying to say, I think. There's not a rule that says that bigger assholes get made fun of more, because they're bigger assholes, which is what you're typing. That's missing the point, a little. I get what you're saying, though, which is close to the same thing I'm saying. It's all about...

I'm not saying you have to turn your focus from Lisi to James. I do, however, think it's easier to poke fun at a buffoon than an asshole with an asshole's outlook on life, but I don't fault that. I've tried my hand at the full recap thing and it ate up so much time that I'd just go for the nearest joke at hand and buffoons provide that.

...what kind of target that you paint on yourself. Bill Clinton, for instance. Where does he go on your Asshole Chart? Some would say one place, others would say another. But there are a lot of jokes about him, too. Who are we to place people? It's the dumb shit he did that allowed us to make fun of him. Your example, the President? He gets picked on because he is a giant effing target because of his buffoonery, not because of his degree of assholishness. President Bush jokes are the lamest jokes ever now (everything that came after Will Ferrell's impression of him was, in my opinion, ha), but he is a bigger asshole than both Rocky and Lisi. Does that make making fun of him somehow more clever than mocking Rocky, even?

When he runs up the steps like Sylvester Stallone, or says "ascoot"? Mock away, because that's dumb. When he calls Anthony a girl? Not funny, even a little, and there's no joke that will make it so. There's nothing to do besides point out his hypocrisy, which is what I did in the recap.

Lisi? Is more mock-worthy, because she is harmless. It's not, as you insinuate, somehow a more noble pursuit because he's the bigger douche, and a joke at Rocky's expense is not somehow more clever than a joke at Lisi's expense. It's about being funny, bottom line, and taking aim at the dead center of the target that's the most fun to hit.

Creating humor about giving the biggest asshole his due effectively makes the joke about the comedian himself, and shifts the focus away from making the audience laugh, which should be the point. It's not even fun to hit Rocky's target, because he's boring in his predictability. I judge Lisi's to be the most interesting, and the most likely to generate laughs. This doesn't make it "the easiest joke" or cheap. It just means that, as a writer, I predict she will get the bigger laugh, and I can be more clever. She keeps us on our toes with her random hilarious irony. But they both need deflating, as you say.

So, there's my outlook on humor; yours is posted above, so I think we're at an impasse. But this is an interesting conversation, and one we should continue elsewhere, because we are woefully off topic. And lastly...

(honestly, I haven't read any of your recaps yet so I'm not judging you on this as I can't, I'm just putting out my viewpoint on writing jokes).

Blasphemy! ;)

Aaaand another book, it is written. In my opinion. I think.

By the way, "Helen Keller is an Asshole" is the name of my next cover band. Just so you guys know. Don't steal it.

[Tabby Lavalamp]

Who's "most deserving"? I don't decide that; you don't decide that; the subjects of the jokes themselves decide that.

But this is an interesting conversation, and one we should continue elsewhere, because we are woefully off topic.
I don't have time to reply to everything right now, which I will do later, but I wanted to touch on these two points.

Actually, while the subjects of the jokes do have a hand in it, in the end it is the writers that decide it as bias does come into it. That's why Fox News created The Half Hour News Hour. That's why more conservatives find Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter screamingly funny while Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart leave them cold.

And as for "off topic", it's my thread, and while we may be skirting the edge of the topic at times, I don't think we're off it as we are still basically talking about Lisi vs. James, except it's about why one is more worthy of being laughed at than the other.

[Schoonie]

Hee.

Who's "most deserving"? I don't decide that; you don't decide that; the subjects of the jokes themselves decide that.


When I said that, I wasn't saying that the person who makes the jokes doesn't have a hand; I was saying that no one gets to judge who goes where on the "asshole scale". And you're right, it's both the person who tells the joke, and the subject. I concentrated on the subject because I thought that's what we were talking about, but I understand the importance of the comedian, and how maybe I should have addressed both sides, so you don't have to lay that one out for me.

Actually, while the subjects of the jokes do have a hand in it, in the end it is the writers that decide it as bias does come into it. That's why Fox News created The Half Hour News Hour. That's why more conservatives find Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter screamingly funny while Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart leave them cold.


This is actually an audience issue as well, not just the comedian, right? Conservatives (one audience) find certain people funny, and liberals (another audience) find another set of people funny. Not about the comedian, necessarily, although that's always a part of it. About what the audience chooses to watch to make them laugh.

But, as I said, Lisi jokes are funnier than Rocky jokes, because of the host of issues. And...that's probably not changing for me anytime soon. I'll anxiously await your response. I think I'm done, though. The last word, it shall go to you. Maybe.