Lost: Ji Leon (3/13/08)

[TinkerbellAPixie]

Introducing Kevin Johnson, freighter janitor. Interesting return for our old pal Michael. From murderer to blood washer offer. What a prestegious rise he has had.

The ships captain - an Aussie with a no holds barred style. Did anyone else find themselves swooning when you had Sayid, Desmond and the Captain all talking with their various sexy accents? Or was that just me?

And what about poor Gina - was she another one suffering from the time warp sickness?

Don't even get me started on Jin - poor Jin. What a night of TV this week - we lost Jonathan on Survivor, Alex on Big Brother and now Jin on Lost. :(

And Hugo's hair - could it get worse? Why was he the only one who showed up to see Sun? Why was she happy that no one else did? And why is Jin alive and not with Sun? :confused:

[roadtripper8]

The ships captain - an Aussie with a no holds barred style. Did anyone else find themselves swooning when you had Sayid, Desmond and the Captain all talking with their various sexy accents? Or was that just me?



Not just you! :wub:

So... were the Jin scenes flashbacks while the Sun scenes flashforwards??? Or are they not together in the future, and Sun thinks Jin is dead??? Picture me confused!

Michael is back!!!

[TinkerbellAPixie]

I got the sense those were in the future - but maybe it's an alternate future? I'm not sure? It's so confusing.

[gasmilicous]

My guess was that Jin's were a flashback and Sun's were a flashforward. In Jin's story the guy said it was the year of the Dragon, which was 2000. In Sun's story when she visit's his grave site, the tombstone says 2004 for date of death. I think it might even say the date of the crash - I'll have to find a screencap. We know they are still on the island in 2004 (first because they crashed in September of 2004) and because a few episodes ago, Desmond and Sayid look at the calendar in their holding cell and it's December of 2004. Christmas Eve, in fact, is when he calls Penny. So did Jin not make it off the island? Did he die on the island? So many questions!!!

[JulieM]

OMRob how I boo hooed through that one. My son kept saying...see Jin is alive because they keep showing him trying to get to Sun. I held a little hope, but not much.

Michael the janitor...wasn't too happy to hear him coming back but was great to see how Ben lived up to his promise to get him off the island.

[gasmilicous]

And...to make your heads spin even more...check out this theory:

So I don’t believe Ben staged the plane crash, but then again, I don’t think Widmore did it either. And I’m pretty sure Oceanic Airlines can get no good press out of gruesome footage of a body-filled wreckage. So just who DID stage the crash of flight 815?

Answer: No one. The plane really did crash.

This is hard to grasp at first, but the more LOST plays out the more sense it seems to make. I think most of us agree the plane was brought to the island for its own purposes - whatever they might be. On the island virtually anything goes, which is why so many necessary people survived the crash. This is the magic of LOST.

But back in the real world, if we believe in the path of fate, the plane was supposed to crash. The people on board were supposed to die. That event played out, as a matter of the universe course-correcting itself, with the plane even sinking to the bottom of the ocean in the same three parts it broke into when it was torn apart in the air. In that one split second the plane existed in both universes: both the LOST universe, and the normal one.

On island, everyone is given a tabula rasa, or clean slate. See you in another life – and it truly is another life. The island and its inhabitants have their playlists and go through their motions, with the ‘surviving’ members of flight 815 looking on incredulously and playing their parts. Meanwhile, off-island, certain things that were supposed to happen cannot now happen… because the elements necessary to course correction are no longer in that universe. Let’s take Ms. Hawking’s man with the red shoe, for example. If you pushed him out of the way of his construction death, the universe would find a way to kill him tomorrow as a matter of course correction. But if he were suddenly gone from the universe tomorrow – the way flight 815 vanished – the universe would be screwed out of doing that.

I’m not going to beat the Donnie Darko horse again, but I will give it a quick kick. In that movie the universe got all messed up because a plane’s engine fell through a wormhole and existed in two different timelines simultaneously. I propose that flight 815 has done just that. The wreckage exists in the normal world, but it also exists scattered across the beach on LOST island. There’s no way I believe that anyone - Widmore, Ben, Bill Gates, The Wizard of Oz, or Bob the Builder with a giant Australia-sized crane actually went through the trouble of painstakingly recreating that crash site. That IS the crash site, because the plane actually crashed. And I’ll bet one day we’ll hear the black box recording to prove it.

On a final note, I’ll predict that when Frank Lapidus is looking at the decaying body of the ring-less pilot on the news, he’s really looking at a universally-course corrected version of himself in the cockpit of that plane. Because according to fate, he was supposed to be piloting flight 815. According to fate, he’s already dead. Ohhhh……

[TinkerbellAPixie]

OOh I didn't know the year of the Dragon thing - good catch on getting that Jin/Sun timeline worked out.

So - if people watched the downed plane on TV and saw all the dead bodies - how would they think the Oceanic 6 survived?

Interesting theory Gasmii - it did blow my mind a little.

[animalcrackers]

i had the same thought about seeing all the dead bodies but then knowing 6 survived... wouldnt people call shenanigans on that?

things i learned last night:
Juliette is a huge fricking bitch and should have been punched in the mouth several more times than Sun actually did.

Hurley is the best friend ever! (i got a little emotional when i saw him come to visit Sun).

and Michael is still a douchebag. I was glad that Sayid & Desmond didnt say "Michael what the hell are you doing here?" when they first saw him. I am glad that it looks like Sayid beats the shit out of him next week :)


i am still super confused on the Jin and Sun timeline. i know that Jin told Sun that he would "do anything" to get her off the island to have her baby. Maybe he makes a deal with Ben and is working for him.... but Sun thinks he is really dead. i dont know... I AM SO CONFUSED!

was anyone else expecting something to happen with the Big Panda? i was waiting for it to blow up or something....

[Tadow]

And...to make your heads spin even more...check out this theory:

So I don’t believe Ben staged the plane crash, but then again, I don’t think Widmore did it either. And I’m pretty sure Oceanic Airlines can get no good press out of gruesome footage of a body-filled wreckage. So just who DID stage the crash of flight 815?

Answer: No one. The plane really did crash.

This is hard to grasp at first, but the more LOST plays out the more sense it seems to make. I think most of us agree the plane was brought to the island for its own purposes - whatever they might be. On the island virtually anything goes, which is why so many necessary people survived the crash. This is the magic of LOST.

But back in the real world, if we believe in the path of fate, the plane was supposed to crash. The people on board were supposed to die. That event played out, as a matter of the universe course-correcting itself, with the plane even sinking to the bottom of the ocean in the same three parts it broke into when it was torn apart in the air. In that one split second the plane existed in both universes: both the LOST universe, and the normal one.

On island, everyone is given a tabula rasa, or clean slate. See you in another life – and it truly is another life. The island and its inhabitants have their playlists and go through their motions, with the ‘surviving’ members of flight 815 looking on incredulously and playing their parts. Meanwhile, off-island, certain things that were supposed to happen cannot now happen… because the elements necessary to course correction are no longer in that universe. Let’s take Ms. Hawking’s man with the red shoe, for example. If you pushed him out of the way of his construction death, the universe would find a way to kill him tomorrow as a matter of course correction. But if he were suddenly gone from the universe tomorrow – the way flight 815 vanished – the universe would be screwed out of doing that.

I’m not going to beat the Donnie Darko horse again, but I will give it a quick kick. In that movie the universe got all messed up because a plane’s engine fell through a wormhole and existed in two different timelines simultaneously. I propose that flight 815 has done just that. The wreckage exists in the normal world, but it also exists scattered across the beach on LOST island. There’s no way I believe that anyone - Widmore, Ben, Bill Gates, The Wizard of Oz, or Bob the Builder with a giant Australia-sized crane actually went through the trouble of painstakingly recreating that crash site. That IS the crash site, because the plane actually crashed. And I’ll bet one day we’ll hear the black box recording to prove it.

On a final note, I’ll predict that when Frank Lapidus is looking at the decaying body of the ring-less pilot on the news, he’s really looking at a universally-course corrected version of himself in the cockpit of that plane. Because according to fate, he was supposed to be piloting flight 815. According to fate, he’s already dead. Ohhhh……


Gee, this theory looks identical to the one posted by Vozzek69 on darkufo.blogspot.com eaaarllly this morning. I hope this is your alias

[TinkerbellAPixie]

Welcome to the forums tadow. :)

I don't think gasmii was taking credit for that theory. She is our info-source, she goes out on the web and finds us all kinds of cool Lost theories and we love her for it.

[jampony]

I don't pay attention to years on this show because it always confuses me (so I didn't really think about the year of the dragon reference) but the reason why I thought Jin's story was in the past was because of his visit to the hospital. After Jin delivered the panda, the nurse asked why he was leaving so soon and he said because it's not his baby. She made a comment along the lines of "you'll have one soon" and Jin said something about giving him time, he's only been married two months. But up until that moment I couldn't figure out why it was so damned important to bring a giant panda to Sun and why he didn't seem to care if he made it in time for the delivery.

[gasmilicous]

Gee, this theory looks identical to the one posted by Vozzek69 on darkufo.blogspot.com eaaarllly this morning. I hope this is your alias

Yup...it's from DarkUFO. They have the greatest stuff over there. Just thought I would share.

I usually post links and interesting things I find along the way. It's part of my obsession really...

[gasmilicous]

I don't pay attention to years on this show because it always confuses me (so I didn't really think about the year of the dragon reference) but the reason why I thought Jin's story was in the past was because of his visit to the hospital. After Jin delivered the panda, the nurse asked why he was leaving so soon and he said because it's not his baby. She made a comment along the lines of "you'll have one soon" and Jin said something about giving him time, he's only been married two months. But up until that moment I couldn't figure out why it was so damned important to bring a giant panda to Sun and why he didn't seem to care if he made it in time for the delivery.

Yea, I was confused the whole time up until the end. Even when he said he'd only been married 2 months, I still though, hmm maybe he faked his death and got remarried?? It wasn't until I saw the 2004 on his tombstone that I realized his was a backstory (and after I looked up when the year of the dragon was).

I'm still confused about the significance of the Panda. :huh:

[Clair]

Entertainment Weekly has an interesting theory that "actor Harold Perrineau isn't playing Michael but rather...."

[gasmilicous]

Here's EW's recap and their other theories, etc: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20184253,00.html

[Tadow]

Thanks for clearing that up Tinkerbell. I also go by Kwani here as well, both aliases are newbies to tvgasm. As a writer, i get worried when people don't quote sources, glad to know that wasn't what was going on! Thanks again.

[gasmilicous]

I don't think gasmii was taking credit for that theory. She is our info-source, she goes out on the web and finds us all kinds of cool Lost theories and we love her for it.

Ahh you know me too well.

Don't worry...if the day ever comes where I figure out Lost on my own, I'll shout it from the rooftops!

[chooch850]

Yup...it's from DarkUFO. They have the greatest stuff over there. Just thought I would share.

I usually post links and interesting things I find along the way. It's part of my obsession really...

We have another member who used to keep us updated on DarkUFO. That was our TaniaNicole. I wish she'd visit us more often..... she's a LOST fanatic just like you Gasmil.... you could be twins maybe........:ohmy:

[chooch850]

Oh... and I don't think Desmond ever met Michael..... he ran away after the hatch opened and I don't think he re-appeared until after Michael left.... I may bbe wrong though. I'll have to research this further. (look at Wikipedia).
.... oooooo and yes Tink, I did love the meeting of the foreign accents.

[chooch850]

I should really gather my thoughts before I start posting...... but what about the dude with the hand grenade in his mouth... he's been hanging on to that thing for two whole weeks now!

Regina jumping off the boat in all those chains was awesome. The book she was reading was "The Survivors of the Chancellor" by Jules Verne. I'm gonna check that out too. (look in Wikipedia).

[gasmilicous]

Regina jumping off the boat in all those chains was awesome. The book she was reading was "The Survivors of the Chancellor" by Jules Verne. I'm gonna check that out too. (look in Wikipedia).

Here, I'll save you some time. From the EW link I posted:

What was the book that the troubled Regina was ''reading'' upside down? It was Survivors of the Chancellor, by Jules Verne, an 1875 novel of psychological suspense about — get this — the castaways of a grounded ship who start killing themselves from madness and despair. Interestingly enough, the books that Verne published before and after Survivors of the Chancellor have some powerful Lost resonances: Mysterious Island (also 1875) is, of course, considered an essential text, but then there's Michael Strogoff (1876), about a spy on a mission named...Michael. His lady love? A woman who shares the name of Sayid's Iraqi sweetheart, Nadia.

[jampony]

I'm still confused about the significance of the Panda. :huh:
I had just assumed it was the year of the panda in the Chinese zodiac (I could have sworn that's what Jin when he was presenting the panda) but after looking it up, I see that's not the case. There is no "year of the panda". Very confusing.

Oh... and I don't think Desmond ever met Michael..... he ran away after the hatch opened and I don't think he re-appeared until after Michael left.... I may bbe wrong though. I'll have to research this further. (look at Wikipedia).
.... oooooo and yes Tink, I did love the meeting of the foreign accents.
I was wondering about that. The camera seemed to ignore Desmond and Michael introducing themselves but it made a big deal when Sayid and Michael shook hands. It makes sense now.

I like the theory that Clair mentioned. I might have to look into that further.

[Clair]

I like the theory that Clair mentioned. I might have to look into that further.

If you find anything, send us a link!

[TinkerbellAPixie]

Been reading the comments under that Jeff Jensen article gasmil linked us too. First off, is Jeff Jensen single? I think I could marry a man that obsessed with Lost. The two of us could have TVGasms together (and I don't mean that in a sexual way).

So - back to the comments someone posted this:

amigo perdido Fri, Mar 14, 08 at 06:59 PM
Sun's delivery seemed relatively uneventful, and Claire had Aaron on the island without major complications. Could it be that the reason pregnant women die on the island stems from the medical "care" that they receive there? I wouldn't be surprised if Ben had access to each dead pregnant islander and ultimate (surreptitious) control over her treatment.

Which made me think - WHOA! would Ben stoop that low to get and keep Juliette on the island?

[Pekmboyd]

Um, I'm surprised at the confusion - I thought this episode was one of the few I understood.

Sun's clips were flash forwards to when she was having Jin's infant - she called out his name in pain and longing and slight-delusion, she said so at his grave.

Jin's clips were flashbacks to before, when he was doing Sun's father's bidding, and didn't seem to have plot value other than making us think he was still alive and "shocking" us at the end. I was pissed, I thought this episode was too predictable....but I cried at the end.




Ok, I sobbed.

[stupid]

That’s an interesting theory about Ben sabotaging the pregnancies. It would explain his obsession with collecting all pregnant women because each one is another reason for Juliet to stay. Ben made a reference to Lock last season that he was one of the last people to ever be born on the island. Even though he was lying it sounds like it was possible at one time. Did Rousso say she was pregnant before she ship wrecked or after?

And Jin’s story had to be a back-story. All the cars were older modles, there was the “Iv only been married two month’s”, the sad “You’ll never loose me” conveniently timed before we see his grave, and his ancient cell phone he was using.

Anyway. I can’t wait until next week. Ill get to see my two favorite characters beat up my least favorite character. And even though I hate him, I’m really interested in Michael’s back story. I wonder how there going to tell it without showing post-pubescent Walt?

[jampony]

Another theory from EW:

Why did Regina [the chick on the boat with the chains] kill herself? Because she was inconsolable over the death of her lover — the late, Locke-knifed Brit Naomi. Remember the inscription on her bracelet? ''N, I'll always be with you, R.G.'' Yep: I'm thinking Regina is ''R.G.''

I'm am sooo confused. Did we ever figure out how Naomi's bracelet and the one Sayid gave to the woman he killed a few episodes ago are tied together?

[JulieM]

I think the significance of the Panda was that the person he gave it to was the Chinese Ambassador and Paik wanted to do business with the Chinese. Panda's come from China.

Maybe that was too easy.

[Pekmboyd]

I think the significance of the Panda was that the person he gave it to was the Chinese Ambassador and Paik wanted to do business with the Chinese. Panda's come from China.

Maybe that was too easy.

I think it is just that simple - I think we're falling into the Lost trap of thinking that each single little detail has some greater meaning and that the answer must be the most complicated one available. Sometimes it's just what it is - the creators have said as much.

[blane]

Um, I'm surprised at the confusion - I thought this episode was one of the few I understood.


I was thinking the same thing.

I thought for the first time I actually knew what was going on, but after reading other posts, theories, websites, etc., I think I may of missed a lot.

That's why I love this show.
It always keeps you on your toes.

[TinkerbellAPixie]

I'm am sooo confused. Did we ever figure out how Naomi's bracelet and the one Sayid gave to the woman he killed a few episodes ago are tied together?

The writers mentioned in a past EW article that there was no tie between those two bracelets. They had just intended for the flash forward bracelet to remind Sayid of the flashback (or something like that). Then when it aired and so many people were coming up with theories to tie the two bracelets together they realized you can't just throw things into the show like that without us analyzing it to bits (like Pek said).

To loosely quote them "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a bracelet is just a bracelet".

[TinkerbellAPixie]

Oh - another comment from the EW site - that I found interesting:

lpeers Sat, Mar 15, 08 at 12:44 AM
sorry if this point has already been made: LOST has to be the biggest advertisement for the dangers of drinking and driving. Jin getting killed off - even if it's faked - is punishment for Daniel Dae Kwon getting a DUI, as was the fate of the actresses playing the Talies that Michael killed. JJ Abrams says: don't drink and drive. It can cost you your character.

[LonnaSaur]

I finally got to see this episode today-damn my childbirth class!

I really enjoyed it. I have only read the comments here on TVgasm so far and haven't gone to other recaps and comments on the web yet, so if someone already mentioned this, please forgive me:

I thought it was very interesting that Michael is a janitor on the ship, with what looked like a special, one-piece uniform, and everything. It reminded me so much of Ben's father, Roger Linus, and how he came to the island expecting a great job and wound up, much to his own disappointment, as a mere "workman," or janitor. Just like Mr. Linus, Michael had a young son, too. I wonder if Ben wanted this to happen as some kind of cosmic payback for the humiliation his father suffered. Just a thought.

I was confused about whether Jin's scenes were flashbacks or flashforwards, too, but I guess everyone now pretty much agrees they were flashbacks? So Jin is really dead? That sucks. Oh, and I liked his hair in those scenes a great deal.

I can't understand why Hurley was glad that no one else was coming to see Sun. When he first showed up at her door, and the way he said, "Good," I almost, for one split second, thought he was there to have an affair with her. The vibe was just very strange.

Regina jumping off the freighter in chains was a little too "Master and Commander" for me.

Kate telling Sun that she (Kate) would have to tell Jack if Sun went to Locke was just annoying. Who does Kate think she is? She was acting like Jack. I didn't like that at all. Juliet totally overstepped her bounds, too.

Do we know for sure that the baby is Jin's? I was sure that Juliet lied when she did the sonogram so that Ben would believe the baby had been conceived on the island. If the baby was conceived off-island, it would survive and then Juliet could go home (if Ben kept his promise). I think Juliet lied and I think Sun was already pregnant with her lover's baby when she got to the island because of that throwaway comment in the airport before they boarded Oceanic 815: "I don't know why I'm so hungry." It's not Jin's baby, as sad as that is, I am pretty sure of that.

[gasmilicous]

So - back to the comments someone posted this:

amigo perdido Fri, Mar 14, 08 at 06:59 PM
Sun's delivery seemed relatively uneventful, and Claire had Aaron on the island without major complications. Could it be that the reason pregnant women die on the island stems from the medical "care" that they receive there? I wouldn't be surprised if Ben had access to each dead pregnant islander and ultimate (surreptitious) control over her treatment.

Which made me think - WHOA! would Ben stoop that low to get and keep Juliette on the island?

Claire was ok because she got pregnant before she got to the island. Sun got pregnant ON the island.

[LonnaSaur]

Claire was ok because she got pregnant before she got to the island. Sun got pregnant ON the island.

Are we SURE about Sun? See my post above. I really thought she got pregnant before arriving on the island.

[gasmilicous]

Well I guess not...we are only as sure as what Juliette tells us. And by her own admission, she hasn't always been honest.

[angiemarie]

How adorable was Sun's baby? That's the cutest "newborn" I've seen in a while.